Difficult Developers at the Workplace

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I always love it when a fellow developer tells you at times he/she "doesn't recall" or "doesn't know" when you ask them a question (after doing your own research) based on something they clearly have done in the past (which is why you are asking them in the first place).  Maybe that person you are asking had mentioned it to the team at some point, or maybe you know that in the past that they have done something like that, or maybe you even see it in use on their own web site.  Whatever the case may be, you know that the person you're asking does know something about what you are asking or else you most likely would not be asking them.  Therefore  in many cases that person decides to give you a lazy response because they do not care to help at all.

As the developer who's being asked, whether that's a week ago, a month ago, or years ago that you did do whatever the person is asking you about, it doesn't matter when that was and so there is no excuse to end the conversation with a dead end "I don't remember".  When a fellow developer asks you how you did something, you should do more than just shrug your shoulders and then just send them away.  I feel it's pretty self centered and if you're in a professional work environment that's just not cool.

I also don't know why developers have to always feel the need to hide of information to fellow developers to protect their knowledge for whatever lame reasons they have for doing so.  Life isn't about protecting your "genius".  That's just being unconfident in yourself when you feel that you can't help someone out because you just don't want them to know how you did something in code to feel superior.  And I bet you that in those times when you are pretty stuck or in a scrunch you'd expect the same from them whenever you needed their help.   Now not everyone has time at the moment they are asked questions, but at least have the courtesy to follow-up with that person later and tell them that you will do so.

Again this is all part of the concept "TEAM" which means sharing each others expertise or experiences so you can learn from each other to become more efficient together but unfortunately does not really happen in a lot of IT shops these days.  A lot of that has to do with poor team management by the Development Manager oftentimes because they can clearly hear it at times and should really do something about that so that the culture remains a healthy one for the entire team.  But a lot of the time it's just developers that have a bad attitude every day they come into work and think that they are God's gift to mankind.  I'm probably preaching to the choir but it's pretty sad if you think that people must act this way in the workplace.  If you do not buy into the concept of "TEAM", then you should ask yourself why you are on a team of developers in the first place if you can't humble yourself to answer a few questions once in a while.

I think developers are way too self centered or lazy sometimes in general, and I just feel it's unacceptable and annoying.  While this is a very strong opinion, it's pretty true in today's workplace.

   kick it on DotNetKicks.com

Print | posted on Sunday, September 07, 2008 4:31 PM

Comments on this post

# re: When Fellow Developers Tell You "I don't remember/know" and they -Do- Know

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An attitude like that leaves little room for those situations when a developer truly does NOT REMEMBER. Happens to the best of us. Especially in a field like this, where developers have written millions of lines of code for thousands of different purposes.

Obviously something set your rant off. That something may be legit. But you're coming off badly here. Don't make assumptions.
Left by wekempf on Sep 08, 2008 8:32 AM

# re: When Fellow Developers Tell You "I don't remember/know" and they -Do- Know

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Lets put this into context yet again because you obviously did not get the point.

"An attitude like that"
I'm merely stating facts here and exposing how a lot of developers act and I am not the only one who has seen this, this is obvious.

"leaves little room for those situations when a developer truly does NOT REMEMBER"

When did I ever state that a developer "must" know the answer and if they did not I am just going to go off on them. I'm simply talking about those times when the developer knows that they do but not willing to give a decent answer. Never would I sit there and have the attitude you are assuming here. So your statement here is your own and really you are twisting this entire post.

"Especially in a field like this, where developers have written millions of lines of code for thousands of different purposes."

Precisely. I stated if that developer HAS done something and they do not have time at the moment to give a good answer and help out, that they should at the least try to come back to that other developer and help and find that code that they DID do or that article they DID know about that could help the fellow developer. Again, you're imposing context that is not here about me or the field.

Sounds to me like you're a bit on the opposition yourself on the terms of teamwork.

What I said was this happens all the time and it does. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that a lot of developers out there are all about "self" and not "team". That's just the facts

The context of this conversation was when you know someone does know something about your question. I backed up that context by stating that person said they did or has used whatever you are asking about.

Furthermore, I am not taking the assumption that everyone knows the answer to a question. I'm simply stating that a developer who is asked that question should not simply just have an attitude that well I dno't know so go away. And I said if that a lot of developers hide or even do know the answer but have a bad attitude.

So this is not a rant. It's stating how developers should not be toward someone asking a question. It is called a good work enviornment and if you are going to try to hammer this as a rant, then I would be wondering why you don't have the same expectation of fellow developers on your team when you get

"Obviously something set your rant of"

Not really, just 10 years of being in IT like everyone else and coming across many developers who think they do not have to be a team player and come to work with a good attitude.
Left by Dave Schinkel on Sep 08, 2008 8:48 AM

# re: When Fellow Developers Tell You "I don't remember/know" and they -Do- Know

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Point 1: What is happening here in general that the blog poster is expressing his own evolved sense of "teamsmanship" - in other words, an ideal which reflects well on himself, but which sadly is not the norm today. Label it what you want: altruism, conscientiousness, good citizenship come to mind. What Abel and wekempf are taking issue towards is projecting that ideal and expecting others to live up to it ("hard and fast rules"), as opposed to taking perhaps a different tone ("good guidelines").

Point 2: I don't think one can ever be 100% sure that another person "knows" something at any given time. Even though it may be likely (or appears to be certain) that they do indeed know something about the topic in question - for the reasons/examples given in the first paragraph of the post - it may well really have slipped their mind for a variety of reasons: the age of the information, momentary confusion due to stress, exhaustion, or what have you.

At which time Point 1 applies and, given a person more along the lines of the blog poster's temperament and philosophy, one would hope for a measured response with less finality.

That being said, a revealing blog post, and one with a good bit of truth in it!
Left by elèyn on Sep 08, 2008 12:56 PM

# re: When Fellow Developers Tell You "I don't remember/know" and they -Do- Know

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>>>Point 2: I don't think one can ever be 100% sure that another person "knows" something at any given time.

Agreed. And I was not focusing on those times.

And I think in the future I will probably word things differently as to limit any initial confusion or assumptions as well.

My intent of this post was to focus on developer attitudes in the workplace this time, as it pertains to those times when questions are being asked to other developers for some information and I'm talking about those instances where that developer being asked do know (regardless of what the asker assumes) quite well that they do have useful information to help out.

Now in those times when you ask a question and that developer truly does not know, that's an entire different situation and I was not speaking of this. Obivously an assumption is an assumption and if the developer does not know, obivously you're going to say "hey thanks anyways" and be on your way.
Left by Dave Schinkel on Sep 08, 2008 1:28 PM

# re: When Fellow Developers Tell You "I don't remember/know" and they -Do- Know

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There are a couple of other circumstances that you must take into account as well:

It's part of our long standing development culture to not give out false answers. Many developers will not answer the question, if they think that their answer might be incorrect. They'd prefer to stay mute, then to possibly give out false or misleading answers.

Some developers hate answering the same question over and over again. If you've asked it once already, they may not answer it the second time. Of course you know they have the answer, but they also know that you do (did) too.

A very wise developer once stopped me from answering a question for a junior programmer. He felt that the mis-direction inherent in the question was enough to show that the programmer was clueless. If I had filled them in, they would have gone off with their half-knowledge and caused more damage than good. He felt that we, as professionals, had an obligation to dig deeper into the questioner to try and determine why they were asking the question. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, and he didn't want to be the one creating problems. That works, but sometimes one is too busy to try and prevent a disaster. Not all programmers should.



Paul.

Left by Paul W. Homer on Sep 08, 2008 4:30 PM

# re: When Fellow Developers Tell You "I don't remember/know" and they -Do- Know

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Paul,

Thanks for your input.

However my response to you is we all make mistakes. If you can't answer a question for fear that

a) it might be wrong

b) the person is trying to milk you

Then I guess that's just being paranoid in my opinion and you should not worry about that.

Usually if a person asks you twice, maybe they just got tied up and normally they write it down. Now if a person asks me 3 times sure, I'm going to start to get annoyed, but not 2 times.
Left by Dave Schinkel on Sep 08, 2008 4:44 PM

# re: When Fellow Developers Tell You "I don't remember/know" and they -Do- Know

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comment recently removed by request of poster
Left by Dave Schinkel on Sep 08, 2008 5:03 PM

# re: When Fellow Developers Tell You "I don't remember/know" and they -Do- Know

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What if you don't remember? I forget stuff all the time.

I get asked stuff like "where is that file?", "how does this method work?" a few months after I'm off the proejct. I really don't remember things like that anymore. I'm lucky if I remember the project manager's name.

Left by elephant on Sep 08, 2008 6:33 PM

# re: When Fellow Developers Tell You "I don't remember/know" and they -Do- Know

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>>>What if you don't remember? I forget stuff all the time.

So far what I've heard from most people here who have responded are in my opinion are excuses and assumptions that those questions are questions about something that is very old.

First off, how do you know that you can't find it again? Did you make an effort?

I too forget stuff all the time even recent stuff, but I don't use that as an excuse. Again the point here is make an effort to communicate and help out and hey, maybe sometimes even you have to inconvenience yourself.

I don't view this as something very hard to do when you are in the workplace, to make an "effort".
Left by Dave Schinkel on Sep 08, 2008 7:42 PM

# re: When Fellow Developers Tell You "I don't remember/know" and they -Do- Know

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"It isn't a question of whether you'll remember: it's a question of when you'll forget it" -
Andrew Hunt and David Thomas, The Pragmatic Programmer: From Journeyman to Master
Left by Mike Henke on Sep 08, 2008 8:21 PM

# re: When Fellow Developers Tell You "I don't remember/know" and they -Do- Know

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OTOH, there's the "leech developer" that doesn't do their own work, refuses to read existing documentation, or STFW.

I have my *own* work to do--if somebody is coming to me every day with questions they're capable of figuring out on their own I simply don't have the time to enable their laziness.

Legitimate, occasional questions--of course. Leech developers, however, can take a hike and make their money off of somebody else's knowledge.
Left by Caligula on Sep 09, 2008 10:41 AM

# re: When Fellow Developers Tell You "I don't remember/know" and they -Do- Know

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I still don't buy it. I've not had a single experience like you're describing. Every developer I've ever worked with is very open to sharing knowledge and helping someone out of a coding rut. After all, the shoe will be on the other foot some day.

I have, on the other hand, had an occasional "I don't remember", and I'm entirely sure that was an honest answer. After all, I've given the same answer. I've also told "leech developers" as the previous post called them, to go take a hike.

Could the scenario you describe actually happen? Sure, and such a developer would be as poisonous as the leech. I just don't buy that "we've all seen them", or the implied "it's a common scenario" here.
Left by wekempf on Sep 09, 2008 2:42 PM

# re: When Fellow Developers Tell You "I don't remember/know" and they -Do- Know

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Wow, the assumptions about my post are getting a bit off track.  The entire point I made in the subject was when developers "Do" know.  Meaning I know and I'm keeping it from you purposely.  I guess I should have mentioned that a little more clear.

I did not mean "Forcing a developer to know or answer your question".  That would just be dumb.

>>Caligula
"if somebody is coming to me every day"

Sure, I totally agree if that is the case. But I'm not talking about that case in particular. If someone came to me every day and asked 5 questions I also would not be happy about that. I'm not talking about those situations.

If someone is taking advantage of me sure, I do not invite that. But you have to also be careful what you are automatically assuming if someone comes up to your desk to ask a question. If you are assuming they are trying to take advantage of you and you don't really know their situation or how much time they have really put into something (researching, reading documentation, whatever you want to call it) that's stumping them, then you have to also be careful in that assumption and try to be careful in your tone and not just in a way say "go away".

Again, all I am promoting here is have a good attitude when people are trying to ask for some help at work...it's as simple as that. I'm not promoting leeching or making the assumption that the person "has" to know but to just do what you can to help and sometimes teamwork means being inconvenienced at times.

My message was supposed to have been a simple message to all. That's to get rid of the cocky attitudes at work and try to do what you can to be a good teammate. Now I don't know what others are getting from this but you definitely assuming my view is one of being a jerk and I'm totally the opposite of being a jerk which is why this post was posted.
Left by Dave Schinkel on Sep 09, 2008 9:32 PM

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